3Sixty Insights #HRTechChat with Brenda Laughlin, SPHR, Co-Founder and Managing Partner at Enavrio

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For this episode of 3Sixty Insights’ #HRTechChat, we decided to approach our favorite subject matter, technology for human capital management, from a slightly different angle. Joining us was Brenda Laughlin, SPHR. Brenda is not only co-founder and managing partner of Enavrio, a consultancy that helps “create tomorrow’s world of work for today’s workforce,” but also CEO and principal consultant of PeakSource Consulting.

A central area of Brenda’s expertise is in helping to ensure organizations’ “data collection and retention process aligns with industry rules, regulations and best practice.” This is where our discussion focused: around the extensive considerations that wise organizations take when handling their people’s data. The very idea that data privacy is important is just beginning to hit its stride, in my opinion. Highly varied across regions, countries and continents, the related regulatory landscape is still developing, and the act of complying can be complex. In the European Union, there’s GDPR. In the United States, there are state-specific and even city-specific rules to follow. And those are just two of myriad examples.

Beyond all this compliance, however, is the principle of protecting the security and privacy of employees’ data. What’s compelling from a philosophical standpoint is the notion that a person’s data is akin to private property. It’s not technically or exactly so, but it may as well be. Just look at the opinion many have about their own identifying information. Mess with it, and you lose their trust and exact possibly irreparable damage to your employer brand. Not that we always see companies treat customers’ data with the respect patrons assume it enjoys, but it’s interesting to hear organizations begin equating the potential downsides of mishandling customer and employee data.

I thoroughly enjoyed speaking with Brenda and encourage viewers to watch this episode in its entirety. She was a great guest and brought a wealth of knowledge to this very important industry dialogue.

Our #HRTechChat Series is also available as a podcast on the following platforms:

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Transcript:

Brent Skinner 00:00
Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of HR tech chat. And with us today is somebody that I was introduced to very recently. But I feel like we should have known each other for a long time in this space. It’s Brenda, Brenda, Laughlin, and Brenda, Brenda is sorry. Brenda is CEO and principal consultant of peak source consulting, and also co founder and managing partner of and Enavrio. And she has quite a bit of expertise and quite a bit of experience and background in the HCM space, and especially in data privacy and security and some of the rules and regulations around that. I’m really looking forward to today’s conversation. Welcome, Brenda. Yeah, thanks, Brent. Thanks for having me. Yeah, yeah. So. So, you know, I think this is this is a really current, you know, timely, very apt conversation for us to be having. There’s so many rules and regulations around the handling of employees data and this sort of thing. And there’s so many things to, to bear in mind, and to be aware of, in handling it, especially in implementations and all sorts of things. And, and I know you have a lot of background around this. And maybe that would be a good place to start. Just Could you share with our viewers, your background in the Eight, Seven space? Because if you have a very interesting sort of broad background.

Brenda Laughlin 01:33
Yeah, absolutely. So I started my career as an HR practitioner for years and years and worked in all the different areas of HR and then decided to make this switch into HR technology and consulting. And for years was at SuccessFactors. And then worked with a partner leading they’re part of their practice. And about three years ago, I went on my own to really dive in more to consulting and have had my own private practice for three years. Just recently started a Enavrio with Brian Turk. And we are really focused on really, really HCM, HCM Services, helping people operationalize data privacy, huh, yeah.

Brent Skinner 02:28
Yeah, oversee huge, huge deal. Um, where to start? I mean, what should it mean, if you were to, if you were to speak with an organization have like a first conversation within, within an organization to, to sort of, you know, prompt them more, or can persuade them that that the privacy of their employees data is really important, like, how would you go about doing that? What, what are some of the things that they should be aware of that they may not be?

Brenda Laughlin 02:58
Yeah, absolutely. So I think many organizations today are not, are not keyed into data privacy. And the there’s so many laws coming at us around data privacy, that it’s super important that we really are in tune with those laws. And it’s, it’s it’s so complex to keep up with, we have GDPR, which I think a lot of organizations are aware of, but they’re very focused on their customer data. We have now in the US, we have the California law, we have the Virginia law, the Colorado law, there’s laws throughout the world. And it’s so there’s so much to keep up with and know how to comply. Yet I think most companies are so focused on their customers and, and really, when we think about the amount of data that we have, we have a ton of data on our employees, we have data on our candidates, think about the number of people that apply for a single job. And so the number of can’t have the amount of data that you have on a candidate. And your candidate base is even exponentially bigger than your employee base. And then we have our other workers. And so just thinking about the how much risk there is around that from a compliance perspective, from a potential for data breach, none of us want to be in the headlines or having to explain why we had a data breach. It’s not good. It’s just not good publicity. It’s not good for our reputation. And so, you know, we really start talking a lot. I think there’s a lot of awareness now. Certainly companies that have been working in Europe around GDPR you know, they understand it because you’re getting some requests for information, which is a requirement of JT GDPR. You may have a data privacy officer telling you, you need to look at your data privacy within your company. But certainly, I think there’s going to be a growing expanding requirement for especially in the US where we maybe haven’t been as focused on it as they have in Europe and some of the other countries. So

Brent Skinner 05:12
that’s interesting. One thing you brought up, that I’d love to explore, I’d love to explore how I’ve had put one. Frankly, we have a voice or amount of time on the podcast, so maybe we’ll have another one of these. But one thing that’s really interesting to me or that intriguing, is it? Yeah. Talent Acquisition? Yes. The recruiting stage. All of that data? Yeah, there’s a couple things. So first of all, as you said, there’s more data there. Really any Think about it, then there is, you know, once they become employees, from from a certain standpoint, there’s all sorts of more, there’s each, each employee has a larger data file, probably once they become an employee. Yeah. Just discrete, discrete in instances of data, per an individual, there’s more in talent acquisition. So now, can we talk a little bit about, like, what are some of the what are some of the rules around the handling of of candidate data? You know, like some of the actual laws that you need to follow? And some cases? And then maybe the second part of it is, what how do you? What kind of what are some of the best practices around, you know, once a person is hired, getting that data, you know, for that person into the employee system? Like there must be some rules around that, too?

Brenda Laughlin 06:41
Yeah, absolutely. So when we when we think about our candidate, and like I said, we have so much data, and the candidates have candidates have a right in with GDPR, which is European, eu, Nordics, they have the right to know what data you’re collecting on them, and why you’re collecting up collecting that data. And they have the right to ask for that data. And they have the right to ask for that data to be erased. So you as an employer need to make sure that every piece of data that you’re collecting on the candidate, you really have a business, like a legit, they say a legitimate business reason to collect it. So to be very thoughtful about why am I actually collecting this data on the candidate. And then ensuring that as you’re collecting that data, that you’re only keeping it for the amount of time that you need to keep it. And so knowing what the retention requirements are, and balancing that with the candidate being able to ask for the data to be erased. And being able to explain to the date the candidate if they ask why you’re collecting it in the first place. So those are some of the basic it goes into, there’s a lot more around, candidates can object to automated processing, which, you know, is some of the things that are coming up right now very popular within the talent acquisition spaces, some of our artificial Intel, our AI and some of that making automated decision making you can they have the right to object to that as well. But just being sure that you know, where all your candidate data is, did it go to any third parties did do what are we collecting, and being able to erase it if when and if you need to, and then putting in place and things to make sure that you are actually erasing it after the retention timeframe. So ski.

Brent Skinner 08:41
Let’s, let’s um, sit on that for a minute. Because I have a couple questions. So I mean, you know, this is, this is a potentially, like a huge how you put it that must be a better word than than complication. It’s very complex. I mean, this is a potentially just very sort of secure, circuitous process or very, you know, path to, to get rid of this data or to. So what I’m getting at is seems to me that the technology you have in place, that’s housing, that data really needs to be top notch or that data really needs to be readily available to you. I can imagine an organization maybe maybe a global organization, that scrambling to, to go you have one system that’s that’s in, say, Sweden, and another one that’s in, you know, almost Finland, but they’re right next week. Yeah. Or something like that. Right. You’re in more than one area of Europe. Right. And you have two different systems for if your global organization for talent acquisition. I mean, what do you advise companies like? Well, let me let’s, let’s put what’s what’s a particularly challenging technological infrastructure that you’ve seen out there in the wild? Where, where you really had to help this company? Figure out and what did you do to figure out, help them sort of figure out how to simplify streamline their data, housing, or I’m saying housing, there’s probably some data so that their data is really readily available to them. So that when any one individual says, Hey, no, I don’t want you doing that with this, that they can go right in there snatch it out and stop doing that right away. Because I imagine that to to compliance, like if you, there’s probably some leeway in terms of how much time you have to respond, but but just knowing like, some of I mean, I’ve seen some, some terrible, I’ve heard about some terrible technology deployments, you know, some old ones that are just so. So I’m going on and on, but maybe you could speak to that.

Brenda Laughlin 11:02
Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. I mean, I think it all starts with the vendor functionality, right, all of our systems, we there are homegrown systems out there, right. And there are people that still are using homegrown systems companies that are, but in general, as we’re working with our vendors, it’s it’s critical. And we work with HR tech vendors, to ensure that they have the right they have the right functionality in place to ensure that they can comply that they can run a report to show what all the data is that they have that’s contained in their system, that they get that they have the right purge and retention functionality put in place to ensure that it allows you to keep data for the right amount of time to be able to erase certain data in amount of time. So we were we worked with companies to help them really look at their functionality if need be. But as you’re an organization, and you’re looking at new technology, it’s key that you are looking to ensure that that system, your main recruiting system, does have that functionality. And then it gets more complex as we look at other vendor systems. So we have an ATF system, but we send it you know, we work with maybe an assessment vendor, and the data goes there. So how are we building our integrations to this assessment vendor? How are we? What is the contract with the assessment vendor around how they’re going to manage the data? And how do we work with them to get that data if we need to comply with a Access Request from an individual? How do we erase that data if we have to erase it. And so those those complications is where it comes in. So companies that are global, and we work, I work, particularly with one really, really large global company for many years. It is really identifying and minimizing those countries specific systems, and making sure that those integrations that data mapping is really tight to know where that data goes, and how it’s being controlled.

Brent Skinner 13:15
So, you know, when, I guess my question is, so I see a parallel here, you know, there’s when you’re a global organization, you know, let’s say global payroll, for instance, you have a, you may have some type of solution in almost every region or locality where you’re located, where you have a presence, right, and, and global payroll really can really sneak up on an organization become very difficult to manage all of a sudden, it’s almost always a reaction, oh, I guess we need a global payroll solution now, because we’re dealing with this just monster every week or two weeks and daily, making payroll processing happen. So looking, so thinking about it from so what you mentioned was that you tried to sort of streamline that for an organization to have as few different disparate solutions as possible in place. What are some of the challenges around making that happen for an organization? I mean, that to me, seems like a monumental task.

Brenda Laughlin 14:16
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I do think when you are looking at global payroll, the challenge with global payroll is a couple of things. One is the hosting of the data. So many, many places from a data privacy, several countries require you to have local hosting of that data. So that that’s a challenge and many vendors are not able to do that somewhere. Some have like a Russian local solution where you can host the data there but yeah, it’s it does come into the main systems of that. That is a challenge we work with. And sometimes you can’t work around going to more of a streamlined system. When you have more disparate systems, it’s harder to track where the data is at. But the complexity of going to one system is this hosting piece. And then also the access, right, the more people you have in the system in different countries, then you have to, it’s more critical that we have access the proper access controls in place that we have whatever permissions set up, so that only the people who need to see the data can actually see the data.

Brent Skinner 15:37
Are there any? Sorry? i? Yeah, well, because you got me thinking, are there? Are there any organizations or vendors or technology vendors out there that you can sort of maybe technology slash service vendor, you can outsource your data protection data privacy, too, is? Okay.

Brenda Laughlin 15:56
There are I mean, there, there are different components to data privacy, there’s, there are organizations that you can outsource your compliance types of functionalities where, if I have a data breach, how do I handled that? All systems require GDPR. And many of the other laws require that we do privacy impact assessments, there are companies that handle the privacy impact assessments. There are also some software vendors that can help you with data mapping with data inventories. There are there are lots of there are solutions out there. So there’s just there’s a variety of different solutions. There’s not one organization that that I found that really focuses on solving all that for a company, or solving all the workforce data privacy pieces. So that’s really why we’ve kind of jumped into it because we kind of saw a gap in the workforce data privacy piece.

Brent Skinner 17:04
Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is a big sort of gap there. If you can’t kind of outsource that whole thing to one, one provider, then it seems to me that it’s this potentially very, very, you’re just distraught with, with pitfalls, possibly fraud can be fraught with pitfalls?

Brenda Laughlin 17:28
Yeah, it’s such a complex. I mean, it’s such a complex thing. You know, you think about the legal piece and the security and data management, and there’s, there’s just so many layers to it. I think that’s why we will see, I mean, I’m not aware of any organization there. There may be somebody out there that can do it

Brenda Laughlin 17:46
all. Maybe

Brent Skinner 17:51
I wanted to, if we could just get into what, you know, what is the worst case scenario for an organization? You know, there’s all sorts of, you know, potential downsides. downsides to this, right, you’re going to have, you know, a legal issue, right, potential litigation against your organization, if you fail to, to, to, to protect this data in the correct ways, according to the lottery, or even just in ways that that employees might simply expect you to, even if it’s not necessarily codified in in the regulatory environment, right. So there’s that. And then there’s, you know, there’s sort of the hard costs associated with, with, with responding to, say, data breach or to a, or to a, an infraction committed in the handling of the data, right, Visa v some of these laws, especially GDPR. But, but beyond that, what, so there’s that and I’m curious, what, what the potential like what are some of the fines like, you know, are these some, you know, sort of weighty fines? Yeah,

Brenda Laughlin 19:04
they’re here. Some of them it, there’s so many different laws that, you know, and in some cases, we are just waiting to see when they’re actually going to start enforcing it. There are some grace periods right now, like the California law 2023. January, I believe it’s January 1 2023, is when it applies to HR departments. HR data, so the employee data and we’re kind of waiting to see how they’re going to enforce it, what those fines are, but the fights some of these fines are millions and millions of dollars from a GDPR or other can be and so the fines are gigantic, like you said, friend, just defending that case. data breach costs of just containing the data managing it, you know, a lot of companies Do you have some kind of insurance policy that helps them with whatever they lost from, you know, some type of data breach potentially. But there’s still the cost of, you know, if you have government involvement, you know, you’re trying to solve this yourself, you have the government you have whatever it is trying to additionally help solve whatever breach issues you’ve had reporting. And then there’s just reputation, right? We talked about one of the big things we’re talking about right now is workforce experience, and nothing can erode the workforce experience, then, hey, you lost my data. Now, I don’t trust you, as I trust you to just take care of my basic data, my social security number or your national ID my bank account information, or, or what about, like, some of my sensitive personal data, like gender identity, you know, some companies capture that type of stuff. So those are, those are the basics of trust and the foundation of what we’re all trying to work on workforce experience right now. So

Brent Skinner 21:09
yeah, potential catastrophe, right. I mean, it is, your employer culture could be you know, with one, one mistake, if not even, just at the point of the mistake, your employer culture, or employer brand, takes a major blow, right. And in their potential ramifications to that. So to me, that’s just one more reason to have the right system and the right technological infrastructure in place, and and probably workflow as well, that you can respond to a mistake as quickly as possible to just just minimize the, the the otherwise potentially huge impact, rippling effect on your on that trust, trust. Trust is huge in employee experience, isn’t it? Yes. Yes.

Brenda Laughlin 22:02
Huge. It’s just the foundation, it’s the core of it, it’s just a it’s just an absolute right, you have to be it’s one of those things that I think we all know that if trust is gone, so is so as your employee experience, employee loyalty, all of that.

Brent Skinner 22:25
You could be facing a major, major, you know, attrition event in the very, right, exactly. I just want to talk about if we can talk a little bit more about data, employee data privacy, right. The one of the things that I that I, frankly, like about GDPR, from a philosophical standpoint is society that, that, that individuals have control over their own data that is about them. Yes. Is that to me, is is a is a are not so tacit admission that, that privacy matters, you know, that that privacy is, is a thing, that it’s real, and it’s a legitimate desire, right? So for instance, this is this is a little bit funny story, but it drives home the point couple weekends ago, I went with my two daughters to visit Nana and Papa they live about an hour away. And, and we went for a walk up the, the road next to their road. And, you know, there’s a farm up there and you see somebody who’s cool, right? And, and we turn around and our, my, our daughters one is, she’s, what, 3633 months, and the other one is 15 months going on 16 months. So anyways, so they’re small. So the older one she talks, you know, she’s like, Oh, we went by a driveway. And she said, Oh, let’s go I want to go down that road. Right. And I and I said, Well, we can’t Yeah, she didn’t understand that there’s a road and then there’s driveway that’s Private Ryan I said it was kind of tongue in cheek, I said, you know, that’s somebody’s private driveway. That’s somebody’s private property. We can’t go on their private. Of course, she’s she has no code on it. And then I went off on this thing I said it’s very important to protect private property rights. You know, occurred to me this this is just my weirdness. And I’m a weird guy, I guess. Walking down the country road with my daughter and and in Papa and, and I thought to myself, Oh, you know, that’s interesting. It’s why should someone’s private, why should somebody data be any different than that, you know, if that data should be private As well, and then, you know, and then a great story and what a great analogy. Absolutely. Yeah. So, I mean, so GDPR that, that That to me is it’s it’s a no brainer, is

Brent Skinner 25:17
that, um,

Brent Skinner 25:19
it’s very interesting. We have to we have to actually put these, these partitions in place these legal partitions in place to make sure that people don’t encroach on that. Because I guess if we didn’t have, if it weren’t, you know, pretty clear that, you know, you can’t just camp out on somebody else’s lawn, we people might end up just putting their tents up on their lungs, how much different would that be than just using their data and not giving them the right to have control of it?

Brenda Laughlin 25:47
Yeah, me how many of us have at some point applied for a job? And you fill out data? I mean, it’s, and then you don’t know what that what that potential employer that maybe you were rejected for the job, and then you have no idea what, what the employer has done with that. And in the Apply a lot of places here, it’s kind of all over the place. And what GDPR did is really give you know, at least for Europeans, people in the EU, Nordics, it’s cetera, it’s given the right to say, what data you have on me, and you have to erase it, you can’t just keep my data, because you didn’t choose me for a job, you can’t just keep it. So it’s great. And I do see that, that in the future, we’re gonna have more and more controls over what data like, if you have my data? Do you have permission to use it, do you not? and me being able to control and see all of that I think transparency is going to be key, you know, for HR tech, HR tech vendors going forward, as we develop new, new functionality systems, transparency, so that you can see what data where it’s at know what it’s all being used for. And then being able to say, No, no, you can’t use my data that way. And, yeah,

Brent Skinner 27:14
yeah, I mean, couple of things. So first off, just the idea that just the idea that that, you know, the candidate gave you, his or her information for the split the explicit purpose, right? To apply for the job, they didn’t just kind of give you, you know, it’s like me, I gave the mechanic my car, for the explicit purpose of, of they’re fixing it, you know, and they get it back after I paid them for that particular service. Right. So it’s not, you know, the mechanic doesn’t have my car to just kind of drive around and do errands for you too far. But, you know, you don’t have my data to just use for winter. It’s not your date, my date is not yours, you know, in perpetuity, because I gave it to you for this particular reason. That, to me is just absolutely fundamental. And, and so there is that importance of being able to purge the data immediately, or, as soon as possible, following the end of the, whatever the engagement was, one of the weaknesses I have for you, though, is, this is sort of maybe a little bit more of a, of a philosophy kind of question, I guess, around in technological infrastructure. Right. But, but do you think that why are we having so much trouble around, like, put this differently? We’ve decided, you know, okay, we’re gonna have these rules in place, right. But there’s still all these challenges. I mean, is there sort of a, do you see in the not too, or maybe that maybe the distant the media, the midterm future, whatever it is, do you see sort of a change in, in, in, in philosophy in terms of the philosophical sort of idea behind how we put together how we look at data as organizations, you know, and maybe systems being built that, that just look at the ownership of the data and treat the ownership of the data completely differently? Because right now, we are your data center organization, it is, you know, from a practical standpoint, it’s their data because it’s in their system is kind of alliances. Do you what would what would those systems look like that would kind of flip the script there?

Brent Skinner 29:45
Yeah,

Brenda Laughlin 29:46
no, I think I think you’re absolutely right. Historically, HR. We have been hoarders right we keep the data just in case we think we own it. We keep it because we have to, you know, some somebody is going to sue us. For some reason, or we have to justify, we have to report on it to someone else. And so we keep the data forever. I see this, I see that changing. I see functionality and the systems and, and the architecture of the systems that were really allow, you know, and in the blockchain functionality, and that I think, could be the answer. You know, I know, that’s not, you know, right here in all of our, but there is, you know, my understanding is that that might be, you know, I see new, hopefully, we see new systems that are all designed that let us control more of our data. One of the questions, though, is, that’s, I think it’s the challenging part is what is my data? And that’s what I think we’re going to have to really wrestle with things like I’m worked with worked on one project where we were looking at all the breadcrumbs you leave, when you’re working in Microsoft Office, you know, your, your, your team’s, you know, who do I talk to? Is that my data? Like, the fact that I am having this call with you today, Brent, is that data of yours? And I or does that belong to the organization? Is the, you know, the fact that, you know, I sent that message to somebody else, is that my data? Or is that you know, is that employee monitoring? There’s a lot of discussion around that. ratings, right. Like, I’m interviewing somebody, and I make comments about is this person a good fit for the job? Does that, like I say, Brent, you know, a, Brent’s not a good fit for the job, because of XYZ, is that his data? Or can I say? No, that’s really my data. So there’s a lot of things like that, that we have to work through as well. And hoping that as we get answers to these questions from probably mostly legislation and court cases and things, that then systems will have to have to catch up with it as well.

Brent Skinner 32:12
Yeah, that’s interesting. I mean, you know, back in the old days, we would have a phone conversation over a landline. Right. And I don’t think that there was really any question that eight, you know, the MA MA Bell, or whatever, you know, the at&t whatever it was, I had his phone conversation. I mean, it was just exciting. The the infrastructure over which our conversation, you know, took, you know, the facilitator, our conversation happening, right. In Yeah, there wasn’t any caps. So, so with telephone, I mean, you want to get kind of granular here with telephone wires, right. There was no, there’s no real data that was being, you know, housed somewhere. So the way that we the way that we have that we’ve the technology that we used to communicate today, right, it’s a different type of technology. And so and so it lends itself to Well, okay, now, okay, I’m the vendor of whatever technologies that that has, that we’ve used to, to make our conversation happen. Right. Yeah. Like that data? You know, as well, you know, I, maybe it’s my data. Right. But that’s interesting. But, but, but that’s a really tricky question, because, because you would have to say that there, I think, to argue that, that it’s that is that vendors property now that you’d have to argue that, that, that there was no intrinsic privacy to one on one conversation taking place with two people involved, having a reasonable understanding that no one else heard it, that that was never a, a legitimate conclusion for two people to have for the Do you know what I mean? So it’s, this this is, um, I mean, I’m sure there, there’s some lawyers out there that are that are discussed. I’m not a lawyer, you know, without going down this, this rabbit hole, but I mean, it’s really interesting. Um, you know, to me, it just seems that, that, um, that there needs to be about, you know, maybe it’s just going to be a power thing, you know, you know, we’re just going to have to decide, we’re either going to say that Yeah, yeah, no, Hey, you, your data is out there. It’s once it’s out there, forget it, you know, tough luck, tough luck, pal. or, or, you know, no, this there is some, there is some, you know, some rules here, there’s some, some, there’s a sacrosanct sort of, you know, quality to, to, to our, to our, to our identifying information. That’s that’s, you know, that’s not saleable. I don’t know. No, Trying to get to

Brenda Laughlin 35:02
know and I think it’s just so complex right now, right? If you, you know, something you try to do in one country, one state, one province might be fine from a data perspective, but then not the German word councils gonna say? Absolutely not, there’s no way that you can do that, or in the UK or in Brazil or other places. And so it’s so complex, what, what we try to do is, when working with clients is is try to establish like, what, what are your kind of your guidelines for global companies, what is the one of the highest standard that you’re going to set to and set a standard that, you know that we’re going to, we’re going to consider requests for a range, or we’re going to consider requests for information, even if, even if it’s not in a place where that would be? Okay, we’re going to make sure we have like kind of some guiding principles and things that we’re going to try to, otherwise you can just get so many different applications of it in different places. And, and then you have to look at how all of this data privacy is going to work with all the data analytics that so companies so much need. I mean, we need all this data analytics. And so we figure out kind of our principles, and we look at those in addition to how are we going to manage the data analytics and come up with a lot come up with our principles that we’re going to. And that’s, that’s kind of a great starting point for a company is to say, what, what, how do we want to move forward? And how can we what is our strategies? What are our principles? How are we going to operate, and then start putting the plans in place to get there?

Brent Skinner 36:50
Yeah, and I love what you said about, you know, kind of planning for for these are my words, but I don’t remember exactly how you put it, but it’s sort of planning for the strictest circumstances. And you said that the the system can can handle whatever, you know, whatever the strictest circumstances are in your geographic footprint? Yeah, the system can respond to that. And that, you know, it’s going to be able to respond, you know, to whatever, you know, wherever there’s an issue with and that’s, that’s something that, you know, a lot of providers for various global needs to do. So some sort of like, yeah, I’m just looking at the time and realizing that we could talk forever, we could geek out forever on this. Yeah, I know. Data and high tech and all that. Brenda, thank you so much for for joining the podcast.

Brenda Laughlin 37:46
Thank you for inviting me. Love, love, love geeking out with you, Brent.

Brent Skinner 37:50
Yeah, yeah. Likewise. It’s been a great conversation, and we’ll have to have you on again soon. I would love that. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

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