In this HR Tech Chat, Dylan Teggart sits down with Keirsten Greggs of TRAP Recruiter. Keirsten has over two decades of experience in talent acquisition, onboarding, and training. Pulling from her experience in multiple sectors, including government, defense, and fintech, Keirsten walks us through the trends she’s seeing in recruitment and hiring, the need for talented HR professionals, and how companies are finding the best people.
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Transcript:
Dylan Teggart 00:00
Hey everyone. Welcome to the latest episode of the 3Sixty Insights, #HRTechChat. I’m Dylan Teggart and today I’m going to be speaking with Keirsten Gregg’s. Keirsten is someone you’re going to want to listen to today. She’s an expert in talent acquisition and career coaching. And I think now more than ever, that’s something everyone can use a little help with. Keirsten, thanks for joining us. And once you tell people a little bit about yourself
Keirsten Gregg 00:27
Hey, Dylan, thanks for having me. Very excited to be here today. I am Keirsten Gregg’s been a TA for 24 years. And I am a lead consultant for a town for talent acquisition, have my own company trap recruiter LLC, where I bridge the gap between job seekers and employers.
Dylan Teggart 00:52
Nice and I think, you know, there are a lot of jobs, job seekers out there right now. Not that we’re in any sort of shortage of corporate workers. But I think in certain fields, we are in a deficit of skilled, you know, deskless workers and more specialized workers. That’s just one trend. I’m seeing, are there any sort of trends you’ve been noticing? Or, you know, are there certain issues that continuously come across your desk?
Keirsten Gregg 01:23
Yeah, so most of the most of the people just because I think it’s proximity, most of the job seekers, I’m seeing her in HR and TA, which creates a whole other issue. Because we’re on one hand, saying everything is great, the economy is awesome. But companies are also having a more difficult time hiring, because they’re understaffed with the people who are responsible for doing the hiring. So that becomes an issue their lead times are taking longer, it’s taking longer for us to get back to job seekers, because where we maybe had 10 positions because our staff was cut. Now we have 20 or 30 positions that we’re recruiting for. So workloads have definitely increased for organizations where their recruiting staff has been tremendously cut down. And job seekers are feeling that on the other end, because the hiring process is taking a little bit longer.
Dylan Teggart 02:32
And a lot of those, those reductions in those departments are still a kind of a ripple effect from COVID, or from the pandemic or is it just like a more of an economic or employment trend that just was happening already, it
Keirsten Gregg 02:47
really depends on the industry. Some of it is a result of over hiring was what they’re calling it during COVID. So a lot of especially the tech companies, you know, the big companies that we that we all know about the ones that are coveted that everyone wants to work at those places increased their headcount significantly, and they also increased their recruiter headcount and or they brought recruiters back into the organizations. And what we saw are like at the end of last year, even and then even the beginning of 2024, was a huge trend, like I, like I mentioned in the last segment that recruiters were the ones that were being the most impacted by some of those layoffs at tech companies, because there just wasn’t a great deal of hiring going on, as organizations were looking to recalibrate, you know, to right size, their workforce, where they were looking at their workforce plans, and all of that. So it was, you know, there were certain times of year where we do that anyway, we’re companies do that anyway, where they, you know, kind of downsize a little bit, but I think it was a little bit more noticeable and a little bit more heartfelt, because of some of the positions that were being eliminated.
Dylan Teggart 04:12
Oh, that’s a bit of a vicious cycle, but I guess could happen. So you’re saying there’s people that need to be hired, but the people that are also looking for jobs? are the ones that are meant to be doing the hiring in the first place? So is that something that’s improving at all? Or is it you think it’s going to be an issue for a minute?
Keirsten Gregg 04:38
I’m hopeful that we’ve seen the worst of it. But again, proximity tells me that that’s not always what’s going on, you know, like that. Just because something is close to me doesn’t mean that that’s the norm for everyone else, but still close to me. Like I said, I’m seeing folks who have been in the job market for a year are, you know looking for work, and they’re, they’re not employed there, and there aren’t as many short term temporary positions for them as for them either. So it’s been difficult. Overall, I think it is going to get a little better. And some of that is going to be folks needing to branch out and look beyond, you know, perhaps their industry, or even their role. And I don’t necessarily mean just their role is as a recruiter, but perhaps their role at the Talent Acquisition Professional. There’s other things to do. In ta besides recruiting, there are opportunities where you can, you know, lend your skills, lend your experience that will be just as impactful and just as effective and get you employed.
Dylan Teggart 05:57
And I guess this is kind of where it comes back to your expertise is what would you say, you know, someone’s like, Okay, listen, person, I need help right now. I’ve been, you know, in the job market for a year, and I’ve applied to 300 jobs, and no one’s getting back to me, what would you what would you recommend, because that is not just specifically for those, you know, talent, acquisition and HR people, but in general, there’s seems to be a trend of corporate people applying 200 The jobs not getting a response. But let’s maybe start with someone in specifically in HR and talent acquisition, who’s in this dilemma? What would you recommend to them be, you know, retraining or another strategy? Or should they just change their strategy entirely?
Keirsten Gregg 06:44
I wouldn’t say change entirely. But you know, it’s, it’s a difficult thing to do. There’s no right, there’s no right answer. The only wrong answer is to do nothing, the only wrong answer is to give up. And that’s not to say that you don’t need a break, because looking for a job is extremely taxing. It is difficult, it’s hard, it is a full time job as well. So you do need to take some time to like, readjust to look over, you know, the jobs that you’ve applied for, you know, maybe perhaps changer, reorganize your strategy, maybe that’s the times that you apply, maybe the companies that your apply, like I said, broaden your scope of don’t just apply don’t just go search for jobs at the fangs like don’t just go search for jobs, the largest companies in your in your area, you know, really think about who are what are your must haves, like what are you not willing to give up and then align with those types of organizations. I know someone who went from working in like finance to excuse me to nonprofit and it’s like doing excellent like doing well, like they love it. They were used to you know, a more fast paced like highly competitive environment. And now they are thriving, a role where they have a lot more autonomy, a greater work life balance their mental is doing well. And again, that came out of them really prioritizing what is the best thing for me, in terms of how I want to show up at work in terms of what I what I need from the organization, not just what I can offer to the organization. I don’t want to diminish anyone’s experience or anyone’s job search, which is why I’m reluctant to say like, Oh, you have to do these things. Because everything doesn’t work for everybody. job searching, regardless of what your career field is, is difficult. And you could wake up one day and get the job. But like literally like you could I had that I’ve been laid off multiple times. There have been times that I got a job before I even left the building. And there have been times that it took me a little bit longer. And yes, I employed the same, the same tactics. I said, you know, I did the same things first, you know, made the call to my network, hey, I’m on the market I’m looking. And sometimes things just click very quickly, like I said, so there were times when I got that job. I made that phone call. And the first or the second phone call was the one that was like, Yep, I need you today, like come by. And then there were other times were like, well, we’re reorganizing. Hey, now talk to this person, hey, try this, Hey, I don’t know, I don’t have anything or hey, I’m looking to but there are a lot of things that go into it. So I definitely don’t want to make folks who have been on the job market for what they feel is too long, a tremendous amount of time to feel like they’re doing something wrong, or that they are or give this perception that they’re there We’re on hirable. Because that’s not necessarily the case. It’s a matter of timing, a lot of times it’s a matter of opportunities, meeting your effort. And sometimes it just takes longer to click.
Dylan Teggart 10:17
Sorry, does that sound issue there for a second? In terms of how companies are finding the best people, you know, given that there is a shortage, I’m sure you know, the categories as to which you know, they’re looking for hasn’t changed too much? Or has it? Or it has this tightening of the HR nine recruitment departments really made it different, how people are selecting people at all, or is it kind of the same?
Keirsten Gregg 10:48
Yes, but in my opinion, isn’t a good way. Because I think that recruiting ta teams are more focused now on attraction, selection and retention. So they’re thinking about hiring, if they’re thinking about hiring externally only, for example, they’re thinking about hiring that person, that going to have some type of career development, some type of talent development opportunities within their companies. So selecting that person that maybe doesn’t, doesn’t necessarily want to go, you know, straight up the ladder, maybe sometimes they want to go across, maybe they want to try different things. So we’re thinking about, we’re thinking about that we’re looking at passive candidates, as well, I see more, I see more recruiters that are really, really looking at the folks that they talked to years ago, the folks that they’ve sourced years ago, the folks that are already in their applicant tracking systems, you know, they’re starting their first and not just when you’re looking for the CEO, or the CFO, or the Vice President of XYZ, you know, because most of the time when we think about passive candidates, we’re like, oh, we’re, we’re hardwired to say that’s a C suite, like because those people are never looking. And there’s only so many of them, so we have to go out and find them. But there are there are ABC players that are already in your system, their ABC player that you’ve already talked to, and I think more recruiters are spending more time with that. Because there is this idea that job seekers have a have a better opportunity those, especially the ones that are already employed, if they’re looking for a job, like you can pick up the phone and call them and I think they’re like, Well, you know what, I don’t need this job. You know, I see more people talking about getting ghosted well into the interview process, and it’s not just coming from one side, it’s not just job seekers. They are saying they’re being ghosted, it’s, it’s recruiters, it’s hiring teams that are that are saying they’re being ghosted, as well, like job seekers just aren’t showing up for work, job seekers are using them to get, you know, a higher offer. And that’s been going on for a while. But it’s, I think it’s a lot more prevalent now. So I think we’re re re imagining how we are attracting talent, how we’re selecting talent, and how we are going to retain that talent. And to me, that’s a good thing. I mean, having this time, or having a little bit more breathing room, because either you have an abundance of candidates to choose from, and you can make better decisions, or you have more time. That’s been that’s been a benefit to the TA field.
Dylan Teggart 13:38
That’s very interesting. And I know, we spoke briefly before, you know, for people who don’t know, and one thing you mentioned, which I thought was interesting, was that with the adoption of more, you know, software and AI systems to evaluate candidates, especially like at first glance, there can be the issue of you actually start running the risk of creating a very homogenous workforce over time. Could you explain how that kind of happens and what the you know, guardrails can be put in place to prevent that and whether or not it’s going to, it’s only something humans can solve? Or is it even possible to program something that can avoid that from happening?
Keirsten Gregg 14:24
You just answered your question. Because programming it is like humans solving the problem.
Dylan Teggart 14:32
Right? That’s true.
Keirsten Gregg 14:36
But yeah, just to answer your question, the first part of your question, I do think that oftentimes the over reliance on our tools that help us be more efficient, they help us make better hiring decisions. They learn as we learn, so if we’re constantly selecting the same type of person syn are we’re that that’s returned from, okay, we put in our key, let’s talk about sourcing, for example, we put in our, our, our sourcing criteria, or we’re saying what we’re looking for. And we’re constantly selecting the same type of person, your, your, your AI is going to always give you that person because that’s who you’re that’s who you’re looking for. So the way to kind of manipulate that is to, like you said, think about things in a more unbiased way, program things differently. Don’t, don’t, I think we have a tendency to go for the first thing, like, we’re like, okay, AI, give me a blue balloon. And it’s like, here. And then we’re like, alright, here, blue, blue. That’s what I asked for. That’s what I got, you know, like, we’re not doing the work to actually look at, actually, it’s a blue balloon, but we needed something that was in the shape of a cartoon animal or something, you know, like, whatever the case may be, like, we’re not really going more in depth. Sometimes it’s we’re not asking the right questions, prompts are a huge thing. AI can only give you what your what you’ve asked for. There have been times that I have, you know, I say this, I’ve said this before, I’m like, I don’t know if I’m starting to talk like a machine. Or if I’m getting better at talking to machines. Because there have been times I’m like, hi, please make this you know, I’ll say like, make this the sentence better? What’s a better way to say this? What’s a better way to ask this and they’re like, leave me alone. Like, this is fine, go away. Like that’s, that’s been a thing. So we have to spend more time really evaluating and looking at and analyzing the output from what we are asking our tools to do for us.
Dylan Teggart 17:05
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I feel like it’ll be a bit of a tit for tat as you go. Like, as we get better at talking to these machines, they’ll get better. I guess they’ll just they’re going to learn, you know, out better talk to us. On kind of a related question, you know, kind of circling back to what we spoke about a little bit before. Is there you know, a reason jobs, especially on jobs posted online, which is nearly every job, are getting so many applicants? You know, obviously, there’s an economic tie into that. But is there a reason they’re getting so many applicants? Because, of course, like the economy, and the job market has nothing to do with that. But is it almost the barrier is the barrier for applying to a job, sometimes maybe too low, where it just invites kind of inundation of applications, you know, like the LinkedIn easy apply, where it’s just like sending your resume. I’m convinced that almost no one ever hears back from those that it’s almost just because like, you can see some, if you have, like, you know, you can see that sometimes 1000 people have applied to a single role. And you don’t know where they’re coming from, etc. But it is because it’s just one click and super easy. But is that low barrier for entry, making the job of HR and Tenino talent acquisition even harder? Because it’s just this massive flood of applicants? Or is that going to ultimately lead to negative optics and experiences for the people applying? Because they’re like, Well, no one’s even reading this. You know, it’s just going into a black hole.
Keirsten Gregg 18:51
Once again, you have answered the question. I don’t feel like what’s your question? So it’s both. There are pros and cons to both. Yes, it’s great that more people are seeing your company. It’s great that people are applying to a to a job. The flip side of that is that there’s a percentage of those people because of like you said, there’s greater access to jobs, there’s greater access to apply and there’s, anybody can do it. The gate to apply doesn’t exist. The gate to review is what exists, and it’s not difficult. It is time consuming. For recruiters to get through those. They 500 people apply. And 459 of them didn’t even read the job description. They just saw a job and said, I need a job. I need a job. I need a job. I need a job or they have bots apply for them. We got to remember but that that that happens to. So it’s time consuming to like, weed that stuff out. But it’s not hard to weed out or to evaluate who is and isn’t. And then there are some times when you have the time or that that diamond in the rough that applied for your job, actually, you know is more qualified for a different job that you have, or one that you’re about to open. So getting candidates in is not necessarily a bad thing. But it can be a time consuming thing. It can flood you and it can take you take you off course, which is why we have tools. We want to use AI tools that tell us which of these we should spend our time or prioritize above others. What was the second part of your question?
Dylan Teggart 20:57
Second part was
Keirsten Gregg 21:00
I forget I’m older I forget.
Dylan Teggart 21:02
Oh, yeah. You seem so old. Yeah. No. But the second part was, will that repeated experience of going online applying lead to kind of a negative feedback loop from for someone that’s applying, we’re there to the point of saying, What’s the point of even applying to these jobs? No one’s ever looking at it anyway, because I can see 1000 people have applied, and it’s been a month and the jobs still open? Or? Or that they’re just going to give up on that or that approach in general? And what would you what would you say to someone who’s in that position, kind of just like ready to throw in the towel for online applications? And would you recommend a different strategy, if you think it is right for them to stop doing that?
Keirsten Gregg 21:49
Like, again, that that’s a tough one. So I’m one of those people who doesn’t believe in ghosting at the apply. I believe that ghosting happens when you’ve already had a conversation. And I know that there’s this whole thing about ghost jobs and things that aren’t real. But that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about a position that’s open that needs to be filled, and that there are candidates there. Unfortunately, recruiters if again, if they have 1500 people that have applied to a certain position, it’s very difficult to give every single person that high touch that they may or may not desire, you know, like, hey, I want a phone call, I want to know why I wasn’t qualified for this job. I don’t want that automated message. And that’s not always reasonable to ask for someone who’s trying to do a job, which is to get a position filled. So does it make a company look bad? At that stage? No, it makes a company look bad when you’ve been in an interview process, that’s six rounds. Sign a contract, do a, give me your social security number, do a day’s worth of projects. For me, that’s actually solving a real problem. And my organization, you don’t pay me for it. You don’t get back to me, and then you just don’t hear from you. Again, that’s a bad impression. Having jobs open. Having the same job open over and over again, is another bad impression. Because you didn’t do a good job hiring, you didn’t do a good job of selecting the right person. But there is not going to be a time where people don’t apply for jobs that need jobs. And for recruiters, if you’re not getting anyone to apply to your jobs, that’s a great time for you to go look for those, like I said, those passive candidates, that’s a great time for you to do some sourcing. You know, recruiting is a two way thing. It’s not just posting pray, it’s not just posting wait for people to come in. You know, recruiting is a job like you need to do something. You don’t need to just wait for people to come to you sometimes you have to go out and look for them. Don’t you have to go out and connect with people. You have to go out and talk to other folks like you can’t just wait for someone to apply to your jobs. No.
Dylan Teggart 24:28
And how would you what would you say is kind of the if there even is a number on this? What would you say is the breakdown between places that are actively needing to go out and look for people like they have to take the initiative? 100?
Keirsten Gregg 24:45
No question 100%. Okay, and I don’t think there’s ever a recruiting strategy that should be that should be all come to me. No, absolutely. Not even
Dylan Teggart 24:59
any Even for larger like the Googles and the Facebook’s, they’re still going after people you think absolutely.
Keirsten Gregg 25:04
Slowly, they’re going after people more. So they’re going after their competitors. They are they are extremely refined in who they want and their organization. They know what schools, they target. They know what organizations they target, they know what geographic locations they want to target. They are they are 100% doing sourcing. Absolutely.
Dylan Teggart 25:35
And at that level, do they tend to follow, you know, like, and this is going to kind of lead into my next question, a certain set of best practices or principles across all of these organizations, like they’re all doing, like you’re saying, kind of like headhunting people, but then do they all lead into the same methods of kind of sifting through those people? Are they all are they all using, you know, the same screenings, the same tests? Because it’s conceptually like, where they’re kind of like, okay, we found this, we found x candidate,
Keirsten Gregg 26:09
I think, I think there are things are similar. I mean, I think that organizations that are, quote unquote, successful at hiring, definitely follow trends, and definitely do some of the same things. Absolutely.
Dylan Teggart 26:21
And then this now leading into my next question is, like, all these pre employment screenings, like social media, screenings, communication, debts, tests, and you know, and kind of just like you were saying before, like a day’s work, like a trail, essentially, you know, if people really, you know, I think people understand like, you know, the basic background check social media screening. But I do feel like and correct me if I’m wrong, that most people do not like to have to do those, like tests, like where you kind of have to work a day for free? Is there any way around that where there’s other ways to test people opposed to just essentially, because I feel like a lot of people who do those and don’t make it through feel very used? There’s kind of like, well, why did all this work? What are they going to do with my intellectual property on this test? Are they just taking it and using it to their own benefit? While just not hiring me? Is there any way to cultivate a more honest or at least a more reciprocal relationship between the candidate and the company when kind of undergoing that kind of test?
Keirsten Gregg 27:32
That is an excellent question. But there’s an excellent question. So first and foremost, you one of the things you said was feeling like they’re being used or like they were blindsided. So you need to know this is to jobseekers, you need to know what the actual recruitment process is, like, you need to know like, what the steps are, they’re going to do an initial phone screen, you’re going to do an on site interview or a virtual interview, depending on you know, how they’re set up, you’re going to do a final assessment or a final thought, like, you need to know what the actual interview processes and if and if, before you even do that first interview with the hiring team, you have already decided I am not interested in doing any test, then don’t move forward. But organizations, I’m going to be gracious here, tell people upfront, this is, this is what we do when we are ready to hire someone. Or when we were recruiting people I should say,
Dylan Teggart 28:56
interesting. And to put people maybe at ease about the social media screening aspect of this. I know some there’s a there’s a people know that it’s occurring, I think because you know, everyone can kind of be Google search these days. Yeah. But how much is that? Human? Like how much is that is that human job versus artists, you know, like, technology job like our people.
Keirsten Gregg 29:24
It used to be a human job, meaning like someone like me, would be taking the time to look at someone’s social media and see what was posted. But you know, that maybe might have adverse impact that might reveal a personality trait that didn’t work out. But you have to remember like I came from the defense and Intel side of things. So we were already being nosy. Very, like we had very strict guidelines. and people that wanted to work there knew that especially both to have security clearances. So they already knew what information they should and should not put on the internet, especially for companies. I mean, this is not just a job secret issue. This is a an employee issue to you know, most companies aren’t have internet policies or they have social media policies that they expect their, their employees to follow. You know, when you sign your handbook, you know, the first day of work, you sign a social media policy, that you’re not going to talk crap about the job, you’re not going to give away trade secrets, like all that stuff, that seems like it’s nor seems like you know, regular things. You know, when you’ll see people that are like, I’m not representing my company, when I post this, I’m not doing anything. When I post this, I don’t know, if you’re on Tik Tok, that might be a sore subject for people. I am not. But I see a lot of tick tock content. And there was a young lady who was who works at Chick fil A, she still works there. But she would be doing posts like doing reviews of whatever lunch she had that day, she was getting like 2 million views this many views and corporate call, like corporate got in touch with her an F it said that she was not to do that anymore. She didn’t get fired, or anything like that. But it was against their policy could to do this, this content without their permission, you know, saying like to be promoting their brand, in a way even though it was it was extremely positive. People loved it and all of that. That wasn’t what her job was at the company. So she went against the policy, something like that would not be a red flag. And it actually became a green flag for another company, because another organization, another chain food chain, reached out to her and asked her to do some things for them, like gave her free food, say, hey here, here’s some things and they took advantage of her being popular. They took advantage of her social media presence, to bring customers to themselves. And this doesn’t necessarily take customers away from Chick fil A either, because they’re both being talked about. I’m talking about them right now. So it is what it is. For people, most people that aren’t doing anything crazy. They don’t have anything to worry about, anyway. I mean, like, do you really spend your days like worrying about what you posted on social media?
Dylan Teggart 32:38
Me in particular? Yeah. No, no, my social media is all related to other stuff. Yeah, not. It’s all very focused on a specific subject, but not related to work at all.
Keirsten Gregg 32:51
Right? That’s I’m saying like, you’re not out here. Like saying, Hey, I’m going to kill everyone on social media. So why are you worried of like, what, like, why are you worried about that? Today, technology is doing that. And they’re looking for particular things, like I said, threats, certain language. Certain, like, even the other of those social media profiles that you might follow, like, if you’re following people who are, you know, very dangerous, who are planning to overthrow the government or anything like that, you know, like, that’s going to be an issue, I’m not going to want to do perhaps, perhaps I’m not going to want you to come into my company. But like I said, there’s employees that that have that have those issues, as well. I have been involved in, you know, investigations, where current employees have done and said things on social media that cost them their job.
Dylan Teggart 33:57
Yeah, I definitely agree that in the extreme cases, it definitely makes a lot of sense. Because just like if there was a rumor going around at work that so and so it was doing some crazy thing outside of work. It’s kind of the same. It’s kind of the same method of, you know, broken telephone, I suppose, or whatever. However, lines of communication that come into work, you know, via gossip, or just people talking about someone they work with. So I guess there’s really no difference. I only I only asked just because of I feel, I guess from a privacy perspective, some people may feel like that is intruding on their privacy and that they are being judged on their private life. And then it becomes a case of like, Where does the line and we’re the lines between work life and life, private life begins to become blurred and where you’re being judged. Or, and this is maybe this is like, you know, it’s fall pulling the thread kind of situation this isn’t happening, but or maybe it is happening. But it could lead to a case where people feel like their privacy is maybe being put at risk, or their private life is being infused into their work life when it’s just maybe misunderstanding or something. But I’m imagining those cases are reviewed. Yeah,
Keirsten Gregg 35:17
those are fewer, far between. And there are protections in place that do protect your privacy, even to the point that you’re not required to provide your employer. And in some instances, with your social media handle, like it has nothing to do with your job. And like I said, 99% of the people aren’t doing anything on social media, or aren’t portraying anything on social media. That is going to be an issue for your organization anyway.
Dylan Teggart 35:57
Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, Kirsten, thank you so much. Just before we wrap up, do you mind telling people what you have going on any future plans and where people can find you?
Keirsten Gregg 36:08
Yeah, future plans. Okay. Later today, or like,
Dylan Teggart 36:11
what do you know, like a good question.
Keirsten Gregg 36:15
That’s a good question, too. I don’t know. But so I will be leading a panel at ta week in July. So anyone that wants to come and sign up for TA week, please check that out. Also, you can find me on social media anywhere at trap recruiter. My website trap recruiter.com. I’m on Instagram Ish. I’m on X, formerly known as Twitter. I’m on LinkedIn, either at trap recruiter or my name Kiersten Gregg’s, they both linked to the same place. And I’m on LinkedIn on Facebook and threads. Yeah.
Dylan Teggart 36:56
That’s what I don’t hear too often. But you got every angle covered here. Yeah. Nice. Well, that’s great. And I’m sure people are going to be very intrigued after this conversation. And hopefully some people reach out to you because you have so much information. I feel like we just kind of hit the tip of the iceberg here. And hopefully, we’ll have some more conversations in the future. And you get all that knowledge onto paper or recording you’re not on paper, but into the digital world because I feel like we just there were so many more questions I would love to ask you, but
Keirsten Gregg 37:29
Well, maybe you can come on Trap Chat.
Dylan Teggart 37:32
Yeah. Nice. Well, thank you everyone for tuning in. And Keirsten. Thank you again for joining us.
Keirsten Gregg 37:38
Thank you