#HRTechChat: Connecting Technology and Employee Experience with Kamal Pradhan

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Kamal Pradhan is a seasoned HR professional with a diverse background in entertainment, oil, gas, and mining. He’s currently Vice President of HR Technology and Operations at Signify Health. On this #HRTechChat, Kamal shares his wealth of experience and knowledge with Dylan Teggart, discussing how to connect the dots between technology and the employee experience. Some of Kamal’s key takeaways include creating empathetic HR organizations backed up by action, building trust by getting the basics right, and creating HR tech ecosystems that understand a business and focus on the end-to-end for employees.

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Transcript:

Dylan Teggart 00:00
Hi everyone. It’s Dylan Teggart. I’m here with Kamal Pradhan. He is HR thought leader who’s worked in a number of industries, entertainment, oil and gas, mining, and its currently HR technology, HR technology and HR ops at signify health. Kamal is a big fan of how technology works and can impact employee experience, and he’s one of the few people who knows how to connect the dots between HR technology and employee experience. Kamal, thank you so much for joining me and welcome to the 3Sixty Insights #HRTechChat.

Kamal Pradhan 00:36
Thank you, Dylan, for having me, and I have to say, the work that you and the 3Sixty Insights group are doing, you know, is fabulous. We need that kind of insight for this industry, especially in the HR and technology space. And really excited to be here today.

Dylan Teggart 00:56
Yeah, thank you so much for having, having, uh, giving us the pleasure to have you on here and, you know, diving right into it. I think one, one thing you and I both kind of look at is kind of how technology impacts the employee experience, and how things like data governance and the employee experience and payroll all kind of tie into that in their own way. You know, you’ve said in previous conversations we’ve had that HR is becoming a lot more than just keeping the lights on. You know, from an employee perspective, you know, you need to build that trust from day one, and it’s more but it but from a larger the perspective of a larger organization, it goes kind of beyond that. It goes into how that trust leads to retention, leads to better performance. And I’ve heard you say that what you can do, whatever you can do, to step up your game as an organization is kind of the new normal. It’s not just doing the basic functions of keeping lights on. It’s more than that. Do you mind telling people a little bit about your thoughts on that and how you came to that conclusion?

Kamal Pradhan 02:15
Sure. Dylan, it’s an interesting one, right? Because let’s, let’s take an analogy. You know, you want to go to your favorite restaurant, right? But let’s take a step back. Why is it your favorite restaurant? Maybe it’s just because of the food or the way you feel when you’re dining there, the way the experiences from the time you get in, you know, the way you’re being welcomed, the way you’re being served, and the way you’re able to really have a refreshing moment, you know, in that space, right? So a number of factors play into that, and you can just say, well, the services server was great, and then that’s why it’s my favorite, or the just the food was great. And, you know, it’s a combination different factor. And why is it so different in the place that you work, right? It’s that can you really function in a way where, you know, you can get your work done in a very positive space, and at the same time, once you know are off work, you’re not thinking about it anymore, and you have the liberty to do that right, completely plugged off. And all these things matter quite a bit, especially when it comes to workplace, you know, and you want to also be able to tell your friends and family to say, Yep, I work at a place where, you know, I have a team of good leaders, And where I have a path to growth. I know exactly, you know, the basics of what I get paid, where I stand, how the benefits are. I don’t even have to worry about all those things, because they work seamlessly. But what really excites me is that, oh, you know, two years from now, I have so many options, and there’s a path the companies really invested in me, and the leaders and HR functions come together to create that, right? So, it’s ultimately the employee experience that matters, you know. And based on that narrative, I am actually bringing other talent that I know right, I’m being the ambassador. And how do you create that is through the experience and experiences enabled by the technology and all bringing all those together the HR function you. Now, with different parts within, I would say recruiting and talent and learning, you know, and the HR tech coming together is what makes it a, you know, a challenging case and why you should invest and in this kind of ecosystem, right? So, I’m very passionate about this, you know, I can go in for hours, but let me just pause right here, you know, and kind of share the mic back to you,

Dylan Teggart 05:36
no problem. And if you, and if you go for, you know, the 30 minutes that’s all that’s all good. That says, that says that’s why we’re here so but yeah, kind of circling back to that principal concept of stepping up the game. You’ve, you know, this kind of concept of empathy that I’ve heard you mentioned in the past, empathy that goes with action, which I think is one of the most memorable things. You know, in our previous conversations that you’ve said, you know, one thing that really stuck with me from the first time we talked was you said, the companies that kind of thrive in the next 10 to 20 years are going to be the ones that take the best care of their employees, which I thought was kind of surprising, because for a long time, that really hasn’t felt like it was the case. It felt like the kind of the Move fast and break things was kind of like the trend of the pre covid 21st Century. It felt like, like the disruptor kind of methodology, you know, kind of kind of way of thinking, which I think is still important, but you can’t do that at the at the sacrifice of your employees, where they feel like you’re not really looking after them, and they feel like they’re just part of that destructive moving fast and breaking things process, where They also kind of can be disposed to the wayside. In Do you still feel like going forward companies are how do you feel like going forward companies are starting to take that to heart? Or are you seeing a change in the way companies are managing and their people are leading their people.

Kamal Pradhan 07:26
I can’t really speak, you know, because I think there are companies who do that really well, you know. And there are companies who are in that path, and there are companies that are struggling right. And I think there’s a combination of the right strategy and bringing the right folks from HR business. And you know, how do we make that happen? It is something, you know, I firmly believe in, you know, that organizations should be able to focus on, if they do want that projectile growth, right? I’ll take companies like Netflix and Nvidia, you know, we’ve got success stories that really stem from HR and people and culture, right? So overall, I truly believe that we have some good examples where they’ve done that. But let me define what I mean by empathy with action, right? So you have, you know, a people leader that you know you report to, and you know there’s that human experience, that day to day where you know, if you have something concrete that, let’s say, you want to get a certification, or you want to go to a next role, you want that help from the from the leadership, right? That person, the leader alone isn’t responsible, you know, it’s a 5050, between you and that person. But at the same time, is the organization really setting up? You know, we’ve had the 5000 plus dollars of tuition reimbursement for a number of years, you know? But there are concepts of student debt repayment and things like that, right. How are we making all of those things work to enable that leader and the employee, right, to make that happen? So now you’re not the leader is not just empathizing with you’re saying, well, I really hear you, you I hear that you want to grow and here’s the path. Or I hear that you have a lot of debt, you know, in terms of student loans and things like that. Our company has really good program, you know, here’s what you can use, right? So, there’s action with empathy. Another one I can give you as an example, is, you know, HR function, right? We’re always saying, oh, you know, we want to make sure people are getting paid, right? Great, okay, we did it. What’s next? Are we just going to continue to keep that? Yes, that is a given. How do you step up and how do you empathize more? Is that there’s always this, you know, ongoing TV. Let’s use the example payday loans, right? People have to wait two weeks a month, or, you know, depending on what. A company has really set up in terms of the pay frequency right now, if you’re a low-income family, you know, and you’re waiting two more weeks and you need those groceries to be bought, you know, today, tomorrow, right? You’re going to a payday loan and, you know, kind of doing everything you have to make ends meet, right? So, the concept, there’s a concept of earning, ways access. You know, lot of states are kind of adopting that, and you work with the apparel vendor and this third party, like, I’ll use examples like, you know, daily paying their multiple, you know, who do that? What it basically does is it enables that payment that paid to be paid to be accessible for the employee early on, you don’t have to wait till that paycheck date, right? So now you’ve done something you know more than just empathize with your workforce. You’ve actually enabled them to have access to their wages faster, and that actually prevents them from having to go get into these high interest loans, right? And these are the things I’m talking about, right? Being a thought leader is great, okay, you have great thoughts, you know, but how do you make that work? And I think that passion comes from, you know, for me personally, is I actually am on the field doing that, and then I want to kind of share more of this for, you know, employers HR functions, and then really elevate the role of HR technology that touches payroll benefits, all that, and bring this new normal that you talk About.

Dylan Teggart 11:40
Yeah, yeah. It’s interesting. As you were saying that it to think about how kind of far we’ve come in terms of the way even just pay in the employee has changed, like, the relationship between pay and the employee, you know, where companies still do and previously have paid, you know, bi weekly. It’s pretty common. But for a lot of workers who don’t, let’s say, don’t make six figures, or even don’t even make, you know, 50,000 plus a year, their pay is, is become, the need for their pay has become a lot more immediate. I think that’s just seems to be the trend. Like you work, you get the money right away. You work, you work, you get the money right away. It’s interesting that like and it’s only through technology that really you could do that. Obviously, in previous in other industries, you know, if you’re working construction or something, at the end of the day, you get paid out cash or other jobs. But even for more corporate you know, businesses that are more have a more like traditional corporate structure, you’re seeing people, maybe in more entry level or part time capacities, being able to access their money right away, which is an interesting change that maybe was coming on the horizon, but the demand for it seems to be bigger than I think most people probably envisioned. And do you think that’s going to be something we start to see more of? We think that it’s reached its growth potential. Or do you think it’s going to start spreading into other industries where people are going to want their pay? Like, right now, I don’t want to wait two weeks like you have to have the on-demand thing to avoid the payday loans that you mentioned. But also, just as the as the economy changes and as people spend, I guess spending habits change is a good. Is it good? Do you think there’s ever going to be a future where the new normal is on demand pay, or are we still going to stick to that kind of benchmark every two weeks? No,

Kamal Pradhan 13:43
that’s an interesting question. Dylan, I think that I definitely see that we are moving in that direction, right? It’s just, you know, access to information is so easy these days, right? And, you know, it takes one state to implement that, and one organization, and you know, the vendors who really are proponent of AWS earned with access, you know, are definitely doing that. I think it’s, it’s going to take some time to really kind of get that message, you know, because everything, like anything that’s new, definitely takes a little longer, but with the technology moving tenfold, right? Yeah, I would really say that that’s the direction we’re headed in if we think about frontline workers, right because, you know, we talk about inflation quite a bit, and you know we’re dealing with a lot right now, and on the whole it is. You can’t just think of it. Pay as one separate element, right? You know, it’s a whole compensation package where you are provided benefits. You know, you’re provided tuition reimbursement, you’re provided bonuses. In some cases, there’s employee stock purchase plans, and then, and then the operation piece that you and I talked about is having access to that sooner. So, it really depends on, you know, I think it’s really between the employers and these vendors to really bring it up there. You know, I think from an employee perspective, unless your part of that great organization where it’s already been implemented, you can probably share that. So, I think it’s going to take a little bit longer. But I just feel like saying it in one sentence. It’s just a matter of time, interesting.

Dylan Teggart 15:54
And I think, you know, talking about digital transformations, kind of as a as a whole, and kind of organizations that are investing in new technology, causing a digital transformation within their organization. You know, people still want to be paid on time and accurately while it’s happening exactly. And I think, and you’ve made the point previously where, you know, the ecosystem is not just the platform. It’s kind of the end-to-end experience. And could you talk a little bit about that and how, you know, companies maybe investing in technology should maybe pull back a bit and realize that this one product isn’t going to solve all their problems. It’s, it’s bigger than that. And if you think that, maybe you’re and if you think that way, you’re probably already behind the competition in a way, do you mind talking on how companies that take the approach where it’s more of the end to end, more of the end to end, and great user experience and integrations with other technology, and how that leads to a better outcome, or can lead to a better outcome?

Kamal Pradhan 17:05
Sure, that’s a great question. Dylan, you know, and we use transformation so loosely these days, right? Digital transformation, you know? What does that truly mean? Like, it’s subjective, you know, with different depending on different industries. But a lot of times I see the buy model, right? You buy a great product, and you know, you hope and expect that this product is going to fix all of our problems, from, you know, the retention of talent to forecasting, whatnot, right? So, when I say transformation, especially, let me go even further, digital HR transformation, it truly means that technology or product is just one part of it. You know, I’m talking about an end to end from the time we decide, oh, you know what? You know you’ve let’s, let’s talk about shared services function like finance it HR, we want to add 10 more headcounts based on the cash flow and you know, and the Pl. finance and FBA team will say, You know what, you’ve got budget for these 10 headcounts, right? And based on that number, the hiring manager and recruiting team and HR come together and say, okay, let’s go out there and recruit, you know? And you start, so I’m just talking about the backing processes, right? So, you start putting the requisition out there. There’s a range that you have to get these people under. And then there’s, you know, once you find the right candidates, you go through the offer process, you try to get them in the mid-range. Obviously, no one wants to overspend, right? And once you go through that whole, you know, offer letter and background, and this person starts, you’ve done one part of it, right? So, your projection of what you could hire, you might have been in that range. So, if you spend X dollars to hire, you know, these number of employees, and once they start, there’s an ongoing payroll cost. And, you know, and there might be other expenses there, and there’s benefit expenses, right? All that costing, you know, from a payroll system, once you hire them, falls into GL and then finally hits the, you know, the finance systems for forecast and planning, to say, Yep, this is where we are. This is a very simple scenario, right from a back end to say we are kind of operating here’s our dollars, for our talent, and for all of that work, you need an enterprise resource system that is very robust, that talks to each other within the technology side and. Also enables the folks within those functions to be able to go through that workflow, right? So, there’s that peace when it comes to transformations, that that tool has to be there. There needs to be synergies. There needs to be workflow between this, these different, you know, functions and the different handover right from HR to it to payroll and finance, right? And then the other side of this is, while all of this is happening, like, think of a cruise, cruise ship, you know, where you know everyone in the crew is, the deck is working, you know, behind the scenes, and then you have the employees on board, right? So, I’m not saying they’re here to chill, you know, like in a cruise ship, but the first, first few weeks, they want to have that optimal experience, right? And obviously it’s not just for the first few weeks, but ongoing. But those few weeks are critical, right? Lot of the turnover, you see is within the 30 to 60 to 90 days. That’s where the highest turnover happens, and, you know, so let me use myself as a candidate, you know, I applied to a job it was instant. I could do it within two minutes using my phone, you know, and it only asked me things that are relevant to me, right? So, there’s a thoughtful process the recruiting HR team and, you know, HR function had done using the technology to enable that optimal candidate experience, right? I just applied. Within two minutes, I’m done. It went through the process flow and, you know, and the recruiter reviewed everything. Enable the system enables recruiter to say, all right, I’m going to send them to the hiring manager and few other, you know, interviewers, and they recruit, they go through the interview process, right? And there’s a scoring system, so it’s all done, you know, optimally. And the candidates saying, okay, my first touch point was the application portal, right? The ATS, and the second touch point was a human experience, right? I had to just interview with two people, and then I knew exactly where I was, you know, in that workflow, as a candidate. And then the next one is the final interview, and I’m done, right? And I get an offer letter, I signed using a DocuSign. Let’s just use an example. It was seamless. And then once I accepted the offer, I went through a bunch of, you know, pre boarding and onboarding activity, which was like, it took me maybe, let’s just make it between 30 minutes to an hour to go through all of that. I nine checking all the Bots for me. That was very seamless. I didn’t have to really go out of my comfort zone, right? And, you know, the way I use LinkedIn, the that was similar, where I could tell this company is really, you know, ahead and on par in the digital, I would say, ecosystem, right? And then my first day, maybe I have a buddy, right? That the company, company has where I could ask a lot of questions, besides the system side of things, and I’m learning about the company more. I’m learning about the job more, right? That kind of setup is an onboarding tool and a learning tool that provides, where it gives you a company overview, maybe a personalized video from your CEO or your, you know, senior leadership team. And then once I start within the two weeks, I enroll in my benefits. Very seamless experience. I get paid, you know, if I started midweek, I still got paid for those three days, right? It really gave me that experience. And then I was able to get my devices on time, and I was able to work, get my work started, learn about that within the first few days. Now, the productive went. Productivity went up, right? Because I’m not focused on, I don’t know where I get my pay, you know, pay, or when I get my pay, all of that has been taken care because that transformation work has been so well thought and been, you know, implemented in that way, focusing on the back end and the front end right, that that enables the functions like HR, to work well, and then provides that optimal employee experience for the employee. That’s what transformation is about, you know. And then further down the road, 90 days, there’s a check in, right? So, we’re not saying technology should replace everything. We’re saying that it isn’t enabled. And now we’re really have, you know, enabling the HR functions and the leadership to have growth and productivity conversations, rather than focusing on, did you put your time in, you know? Did you approve it? And I was just a lot of those, I will say monotonous, you know, and tactical things and transaction things can be automated, right? So. Uh, that’s in a nutshell. For me, transformation is all about the growth of the company, while not neglecting the growth of the employees and the talent, right? So, it’s a win for both. So let me pause here. You know, I always say that this is a topic I can talk about for hours and hours, but yeah, that’s where we are today, you know, and an AI will definitely enable that. So

Dylan Teggart 25:32
yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and kind of going into that ecosystem a bit further, specifically for a group of individuals or a group of workers that we both find interesting, which is, you know, frontline workers with like atypical or deskless environments. I know you’ve done; I know you’ve done some really interesting work in those industries. You know, you have to assume that they’re not in front of a computer for a good amount of their time. So how does that change the way you approach this? Because it is, you know, and sometimes it’s not a one size fits all solution for every company, but especially in these industries, and I know you’ve, you know, in mining and some of the other industries you’ve worked in, how did you kind of deal with those challenges of tying into what you just mentioned?

Kamal Pradhan 26:21
I think the fundamental thing there is the business acumen. Do you really understand the business right? Even if you HR, if you HR tech or that is, that is the key thing. So, I’ll give you very specific examples. So, the mining company I used to work for had a had a key problem for frontline workers, and even, actually our Dex desk population, right? And let me define the problem. So, there were a lot of grievance grievances that came in from the Union, where the miners, as they went down to the mine and did their work, clocked in, clocked out, during the play they would say, you know, what? Actually, I was there at 8am and I clocked out at, you know, 5pm you know, with my lunch break, I still feel like the pace isn’t accurate, right? And so, we had to really investigate, is it like, obviously, you know, there’s some truth to it, but what went wrong, right? So, normally, you sit at a desk, you talk to the HR business partners and folks at the site this, but in this case, actually, I went down there, you know, and met with the HR business partners, and then obviously, you know, they gave us a tour. And it was not like, oh, it was fun, exciting to it was, but it was also really to understand exactly what do they go through in a daily cycle, right? So, folks who would implement it, you know, in the beginning, didn’t really, not every implementation goes 100% right? So, when I was going through that process, there’s a safety training you have to go through, and then you gear up, you know, to take the elevator like it’s a mile deep, right? And it’s a different world down there in the mine, you know. And this, I’m talking about salt mine, right, not a coal mine. And as you’re going through all these processes, you know, when you clock in, there are sometimes where things could go wrong, the elevator is stuck, or that anything can happen, right? And the production plan, and so your clock in time doesn’t really reflect the true time. There’s always this extra few minute, or sometimes 10 to 15 that is unaccounted for, but the employees there, you know, right? And what we were able to do is get a buy in from the leadership work with the union and say, Look, we totally get it. There is a buffer time, you know, that we have to put in. And with that alignment, we kind of said, as long as you log in, let’s just say you logged in at 1015 we’ll round back to 10am right? So, I’m just using that hypothetically, but that’s what we did, so that now we started those grievances, and the issues law went down quite a bit, and employees were happier, right? Because that 15 minutes add up, you know, a day a week, a month, you know. So that was one and then same thing for our desk population, right? Especially who are hourly folks. They say, Yeah, I would log in, but the computer didn’t start, so we couldn’t, you know, they didn’t have as many issues as our frontline folks at the mind did, but we still had to do some kind of rounding rule, right? So, there’s a very specific, tactical example that we solved through technology and alignment with the business, but we have to know exactly what was going on. So great. You’re a thought leader, you know. But thought leadership is not going to do, you know, everything, right? You still have to be able to execute on those, so this is a great example where, you know, I think that we play it’s not. Keeping lights on, keeping the right lights on, you know, for the right time. So, yeah, this, this is one of the examples that Dylan I have.

Dylan Teggart 30:14
And, you know, understanding the business seems to be kind of a critical part of it. And I think that you know, given that you know, very unique example of you know, you understood the business enough to go there in person, and respected enough to go there in person to really witness how it works for someone actually doing the job, which I feel like is if you’re trying to do all the things you mentioned before, like have empathy and kind of meet the workers where they’re at, then you literally need to go and meet them where they’re at sometimes. And I think that that part of it can be missed by some people. And tying that into technology, you know, making things that, making sure things are mobile based impractical, I feel like is something that I’ve thought a lot about, you know, having talked to other thought leaders in the industry, and also done some of these jobs myself when I was younger, is sometimes the Technology just really doesn’t apply nicely into the industry. And, you know, it takes someone like yourself going down there, or someone with the experience, you know firsthand, to go down there and kind of tweak it all. So, it does actually interact, you know, because it is just the middle of man. So, it’s like it, you know, it should interact with the employee well, and it should interact with the organization well. So, both are kind of happy. Do you feel like a lot of are there any specific solutions you feel like are really nailing that and kind of creating an ecosystem for frontline workers that doesn’t really waste their time and lets them focus on their job.

Kamal Pradhan 32:08
I you know, honestly, like, this is a question I don’t have a very clean answer, right? Because there are good technologies like so in this particular example, right? The miners who were going in had a badge, and the bad swipe was, you know, using it, we used clones, which is ultimate group right now, you know, UKG and all combined. So basically, the clock is there, and you just swipe your badge, and then it, you know, inputs your time and do, right? There are really good tools and products out there, right? It really depends on how you implement it; you know? And I really think that it’s more than the product, it’s the implementation, and the implementation that’s built around the business needs, and not a very standard vanilla one, right? So, yeah, workday is a good product, you know. Oracle is a good product too, you know. But not everything’s going to be one size fits all, right? You may have a I want to say we use greenhouse as an ATS, I’ve used that. I’ve used Taleo, you know, for attracting the newer talent and the younger talent, right? And not like every age range, but especially like the tech savvy one, they will prefer the quickest way to get on the fastest way, right? So, there are some products on the ATS side, they’ve done a great job, and some are lagging behind, right? But I think that if you have a big ERP, you know, product like Oracle, it’s good for, you know, a mid-sized to bigger company, for a small company, you know, you just have to think, is it the right one for us, right? And you could probably go with Hi Bop, you know, or you could go with, you know, ultimate software, right? So, I think that it really depends on the business, you know, and how we implement it,

Dylan Teggart 34:16
yeah, for sure. And kind of talking about, like, pretend, you kind of touched on like onboarding, which to me, is kind of where retention begins. You know, I think I’ve heard you talk about talent mapping early on and focusing on kind of promotion ladders. Do you mind talking a little bit about it?

Kamal Pradhan 34:41
that? So, there’s, there’s this window of opportunity for every organization when, when we hire people, no one has a crystal ball, right? But if you have enough data, your kind of closer, you know. So what? What do? I mean by that. So, you’re, you’re hiring a group of talent for different roles. You know, during that process, you gather what their academics is, what their skill sets are, you know, all the different things you have an opportunity to get that in right during the initial application, and then during the onboarding piece, and then during the first 30 days, or 60 days, nine days, you can kind of time it, you have to, you have a way to get feedback from them, right? To say, how was the onboarding experience? What did they like about it, you know, did they have the right human experience? Did they have the right system experience, right? You know. And they are, you know, did they feel welcome, right? So, there’s all this combination that you can get through data capture it, and from here, let’s focus on talent, because that’s where what you asked me, right? You can kind of see what their aspirations are too. Two years ago, I came as an intern in an engineering role. I truly want to become a product manager. So, they’re already telling you what they were they want to be, right? And you have a way you when I say you as a HR function within and the talent function to say, we’re actually going to need two or three more product managers, you know, within a two year roadmap, and you have a talent pool who’ve kind of, you’ve hired because of what their qualifications are. And then you also have a way to build that right. So having all these data points and say, All right, here’s a roadmap, you enable the leadership to say, Look, you always have the option to hire externally, but hiring internal is great because, you know that enables your traditional, or would say knowledge, you know, I would even say tribal knowledge within your company, to stay within the company, right? And so, tell us what you need. You know, you can. You can ask the hiring managers and people, leaders of these employees, to say, this is what you need. This is what we’re going to give you. And have that dialog, right? And then work with that employee to say, six months from now, here’s the development plan, as you continue to work, here’s the certification you could take. We’re going to provide you that a year from now, you’re, you know. So, these are the X, Y and Z, like a step, you know, career ladder and mapping, and then also the compensation that aligns with that, you know, and you don’t have to pay top dollar to again recruit. That’s extra dollar spent, right? You know, that can be avoided. So, I think those are the things you can do, and that window of opportunity is within the first 30 to 90 days to really make them feel welcome at the same time, get that info from them. And so, this is what I’m talking about from an onboarding and, you know, experience and developing.

Dylan Teggart 37:51
talent. Well, listen, Kamal, thank you. It’s been a great talk today, and I really appreciate you coming on. I know you could go on for quite a while on some of these subjects, I appreciate you being able to explain it so succinctly. It’s, you know, these are very in depth subjects, but you all, you all, you know, the way you talk about them all really helps it come off very clearly, which is great to hear just before we wrap things up, is there anywhere people can reach out to you if they have any questions? I know your kind of active on LinkedIn. Yes,

Kamal Pradhan 38:26
LinkedIn is the best place you can just search for Kamal Pradhan, you know, and you’ll see me, and you know, I’m happy to engage in conversations and provide any help. Ultimately, what I would say is, you know, everything that we do is to make the world a better place, right? Make our community a better place, make our workplace a better place, and we are doing our part through HR technology and operations and HR together. And that’s the goal, right? Having the best shiny technology is not the goal. It’s an enabler. So that’s the message that I would want to leave. And you know, Dylan, I also want to thank you for doing all the excellent work that you and Nick and others are doing. And you know, providing a 360 experience, and I love the name 360 insights, right? Are we need that from a vendor solution perspective, from a career mapping perspective, every single aspect that touches HR and workforce management, right? You? You and the team have been doing that, and I just want to say thank you for that.

Dylan Teggart 39:31
I really appreciate it, and thank you again, so much for coming on and look forward to having you back in the future.

Kamal Pradhan 39:37
Pleasure, pleasure being here. Take care.

Dylan Teggart 39:40
Bye, everyone.

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